Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  25

  The "Jesus is Michael" teaching soon to go?

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  could the teaching that jesus is michael the archangel, be soon to be discarded?

  first of all, watchtower is big on image and this is one of those teachings that paint the jw religion as being rather kooky and heretical.

  secondly, this teaching is not an original watchtower teaching but one they inherited from their second adventist ancestry.

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  Island Man

  "Way too many questions to answer then with Rev. 12:7"

  Those are leading questions concocted by Watchtower for the purpose of supporting their claim that Jesus is Michael. Those questions don't pose a problem for other Christian groups.
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  33

  Beautiful new kingdom song

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anyone noticed this new song?

  i think it's absolutely beautiful.

  it's got a film score quality about it, with depth and feeling.

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  Island Man

  I have stated before that it sounds like a score for an epic movie like a Lord of the Rings type movie. I have to admit I like the music too myself and I'm not ashamed to say it. Just because an organization is corrupt, manipulative, exploitative, deceitful, etc doesn't mean you have to be ashamed to admit that one of their songs has good music. Saying you like one of their songs doesn't mean you're now endorsing the organization or its practices. Let's not be petty. Let's not fall into the trap of stigmatizing where you just condemn everything that comes from a particular source as bad or distasteful just because it's a source you disapprove of. True maturity means you're big enough to acknowledge whatever little good there may be that comes from your worst or most hated enemy.

  Just to illustrate my point, I'll tell you a little story about a Caribbean nation called Grenada. Remember the US military operation in Grenada in 1983? In the late 1970s there was a coup there and a Marxist regime started a communist revolution that ultimately imploded violently in 1983. But during the time of the Marxist regime, Grenada became like a kind of protege of Cuba and to a lesser extent, the USSR. Lots of Grenadians were able to go to Cuban universities to study to become doctors, engineers, etc. And lots of skilled technicians from Cuba came to Grenada to help set up various industries like soap making and canning etc. They even started building the Island's first international airport which Reagan was worried would be used for military purposes. So there was a fair amount of technological and industrial investments made by Cuba and USSR to ensure that the Grenada revolution succeeded. Of course Cuba and USSR no doubt saw some strategic benefit for themselves in having Grenada as an ally due to its location.

  But of course, living under a Marxist regime during the height of the cold war was not all good. There were abuses like imprisoning, torturing and sometimes killing dissenters or those suspected of covertly working with the CIA to undermine or topple the revolution. By late 1983 a festering division within the Marxist regime resulted in one of the two "joint leaders" being placed under house arrest by the other. Later he was freed by a large crowd of his protesting supporters who brought him to one of the forts which housed a large cache of arms and ammunition. A standoff ensued which lasted a few hours then culminated in a mini-massacre when APCs went up to the fort and someone fired the first shot igniting a firefight. Shortly after the firefight ended the freed "joint leader" and cabinet colleagues loyal to his faction were captured, tried and executed by firing squad on that fort. The other faction instituted a curfew and several days later US troops came in.

  By this time you can imagine that the whole experience with Marxism was quite traumatizing to many Grenadians. Many of them had lost loved ones during the firefight. And the "joint leader" that was executed was the one that was more popular, charismatic and beloved by the people. Add to all of this the prevailing anti-communist sentiment that loomed at that time during the height of the cold war and you can imagine that many Grenadians developed a bit of an aversion to communism and this brings me to the salient point: What happened to all the factories and equipment that Cuba and Russia sent to Grenada?

  They were stigmatized as being communist and abandoned, discarded, given away, etc. The bad experience they had with the Marxist regime - they stigmatized the factories and the equipment with it. These factories were basically just abandoned and so, industrially speaking, Grenada was no better off after the revolution than they were before. They threw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. Fortunately they didn't view the then unfinished international airport the same way. Ironically, the airport that Cubans were working on, and that Reagan was saying would be used for Russian fighter jets, was completed with the help of the very anti-communist, US.

  Lesson: Do not stigmatize. Appreciate a spade as being a spade regardless of how you feel about its maker.
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  25

  The "Jesus is Michael" teaching soon to go?

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  could the teaching that jesus is michael the archangel, be soon to be discarded?

  first of all, watchtower is big on image and this is one of those teachings that paint the jw religion as being rather kooky and heretical.

  secondly, this teaching is not an original watchtower teaching but one they inherited from their second adventist ancestry.

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  Island Man

  Could the teaching that Jesus is Michael the archangel, be soon to be discarded?

  First of all, Watchtower is big on image and this is one of those teachings that paint the JW religion as being rather kooky and heretical. Secondly, this teaching is not an original Watchtower teaching but one they inherited from their Second Adventist ancestry. SDA's teach the same thing. So dumping this teaching can be spun by Watchtower as them further expunging themselves of the last vestiges of false teachings from christendom, and further marking a distinction between JWs and other groups. Thirdly, it's not a teaching that is critical to the framework of the JW belief system. It is not a linchpin teaching like 1914, but more of an obscure side point. They stand to gain more than they will ever lose, if they dump it. So could this be one of the current JW teachings that will soon be abandoned?
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  13

  Exposing the Core Premise of JW False Teaching

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  poison is at work in any argument with jehovah's witnesses.

  this poison has little to do with the beauty of watchtower logic or the tasty morsels of jw reasoning.. the poison is odorless and tasteless and it has absorbed into their core premise: scripture interpretation directed by jehovah.. if you buy into the core premise (somebody possesses a divinely granted access to an infallible source of truth) you are already dead in the water.. that is the deal breaker.

  false premises lead always to false conclusions.. stop right here.. the core misrepresentation of christianity solely rests in accepting the bible as the inerrant word of almighty god.

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  Island Man

  If you look up the All Scripture book, at the criteria used to determine the inspiration of Bible books you will notice that the arguments take two or three forms:

  1. Book X is inspired because Book Y quotes from it or mentions it.

  2. Book Y is inspired because earliest Jewish records list in among the writings that the Jews considered to be scripture.

  3. Book Z is inspired because [insert name of famous early Christian apologist] quotes from it and considers it as scripture.

  So ultimately the claim of inspiration for the current canon of Bible books rests entirely on putting faith in ancient tradition - faith in men.
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  13

  Exposing the Core Premise of JW False Teaching

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  poison is at work in any argument with jehovah's witnesses.

  this poison has little to do with the beauty of watchtower logic or the tasty morsels of jw reasoning.. the poison is odorless and tasteless and it has absorbed into their core premise: scripture interpretation directed by jehovah.. if you buy into the core premise (somebody possesses a divinely granted access to an infallible source of truth) you are already dead in the water.. that is the deal breaker.

  false premises lead always to false conclusions.. stop right here.. the core misrepresentation of christianity solely rests in accepting the bible as the inerrant word of almighty god.

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  Island Man

  To make matters even worse, the JWs teach that God allowed his name to be thoroughly expunged from the New Testament without leaving any manuscript evidence testifying to its original inclusion. So JWs foolishly contradict themselves by saying God accurately preserved his Word, while simultaneously saying he allowed apostate christians to expunge his name from the NT. They claim to encourage faith in the Bible while simultaneously undermining faith in its preservation.
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  77

  North Korea threatening to bomb Guam...

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  crazy kim again....could happen?

  thoughts?.

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  Island Man

  hothabanero: At any rate the missile sites should just be bombed before they can be launched/completed. A first strike now will save us from Nuclear war down the road.

  It's not as simple as that. North Korea is virtually holding South Korea hostage with a gun to its head. They have lots of guns pointed at Seoul and probably enough ammunition to bury the city with bullets and bombs. Any military aggression by the US is likely to be met with a response in the form of North Korea killing hundreds of thousands of citizens of US allies in the region.

  There's virtually no way to take out all of NK's military might before they can retaliate. They have lots of secret underground military installations that can't be easily found, let alone reached by bombs.
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  13

  New Instructions?

  by FedUpJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i may have missed it, but i just heard from a local elder that there are "new" instructions for how the two one day assembly's are to be conducted and handled......fifty-nine pages worth.

  he said they will now all be put on the same as the regional conventions.

  did i miss that letter/orders from "mother"?

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  Island Man

  If they're switching to smaller gatherings in kingdom halls, then this move could be an attempt to extract more "donations" from JWs. If each cong. had their convention alone in their own hall, then Watchtower can track the convention donations on a per congregation basis instead of a circuit basis. That would put more pressure on the elders of congregations to goad the publishers into donating. Spreading the accountability to each congregation would indirectly increase the pressure on JWs to donate.

  Additionally, more money can go to Watchtower as there wouldn't be the expense associated with renting outside facilities.
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  29

  What religions/organizations aren't a cult?

  by Jules Saturn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so we've already established that most religions can be classified as high control groups, we can name the wbts, church of scientology, lds, etc.

  the list goes on and on.

  but are there any religions or organizations that aren't classified as a high control group or aren't as bad as the ones i've just mentioned?

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  Island Man

  Cult is not one word. It's multiple words with the same spelling and different meanings. Here are some examples:

  1. Cult - A religion.

  2. Cult - A devoted group of followers or fans of a particular entertainer or product of entertainment.

  3. Cult - A highly controlling organization centered around authoritarian leadership that psychologically manipulates and exploits its members who exhibit high levels of devotion to the group and its cause to the detriment of their own welfare.

  Nothing infuriates me than seeing persons enter a discussion which is very clearly about 3 and injecting the meaning of 1 to cause obfuscation.

  The Anglican Church is not a cult (3). The Unitarian Universalist Church is not a cult (3). Every religion that does not find it necessary to write a special article on their website refuting the charge that they're a cult (3), is probably not a cult (3).
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  63

  "Even if this wasn't the truth, I would still stay. This is the best life to live..."

  by HereIgo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was recently told this by a jw family member when trying to get through to them.

  does this quote indicate that maybe such ones have considered that the jw's may not have the truth after all?

  or is that just my wishful thinking?

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  Island Man

  I have heard words to that effect from an elder during casual conversation. I believe such words reveal that deep down they do have doubts about the organization being the Truth and such reasoning is actually a rationalization for why one should remain.

  But the statement is false. JWs don't live the best life. Shunning your own flesh and blood just because they leave your religion and join another, is not the best way of life. Refusing higher education and therefore hampering your ability to fulfill your full potential economically and societally, is not the best way of life. Refusing life-saving blood transfusion for your dying minor child or yourself, during a medical emergency, thereby consigning yourself or your child to almost certain death, is not the best way of life. Holding a prejudiced view of everyone around you, labelling them as "worldly", "bad association" and "unbelievers" just because they don't belong to your particular sect of a religion, is not the best way of life.

  I can live a good life with the same moral standards as JWs, without drug abuse and the other social ills JWs prejudicially paint everyone as suffering from, all without having to practice the ills mentioned above that are specific to the JW way of life. Many non-JWs of other religions live that better way of life.

  More importantly, we can use their own Bible to call them out on their best life BS! If they are true Christians as they claim then their way of life is definitely not enviable, according to the Bible. In 1 Corinthians 15 "Paul" says that Christians are to pitied more than all other men if Christ was not raised up! Why would he say a thing like that if the Christian way of life true was the best? His words reveal that the Christian way of life is one filled with trials and hardships. It is a difficult life that is to be endured only because of the hope of the resurrection and the promise of future eternal life. Not the best life - but a drudgery worth enduring to gain the prize of eternal life.

  The JWs are lying against reality and against the Bible itself! Best life lie ever!
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  15

  Where else can I go???

  by UNCONDITIONAL LOVE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  those are the words of my 2nd generation born in jw mother.

  my grandfather died refusing blood.

  i've since come to the realization that many jws have no other opportunities or options when it comes to leaving the cult.

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  Island Man

  Where did a sincere Christian living before the advent of Watchtower, had to go after exiting the corrupt Catholic Church? Who was God's organization back then?

  That's all you have to ask them. They teach that God had no organization on earth during the centuries after the apostasy started and before C.T. Russell started things going. So they teach that the scenario of God not having a true organization on earth, existed in the past! All you have to do is take that teaching - their own teaching - and extend that scenario to the present. God still doesn't have an organization.

  They will counter by pointing to scriptures in Daniel and elsewhere that talk about many roving about and the true knowledge becoming abundant in the time of the end. They will say that the bible prophecies a restoration of true worship in "the time of the end". But guess what: that still doesn't refute your argument because "the time of the end" has not ended yet and they can't tell you when "the time of the end" will end!

  So you can simply respond by agreeing with them that there will indeed be a restoration of true worship that the scriptures talk about but is not with the JWs and has not happened yet but is still yet future. They cannot tell you exactly how long the time of the end is and they have no way of demonstrating exactly when during "the time of the end" that true worship is supposed to be established. But you have the JW organization's long, well-documented history of false teachings, lies and false prophecies to prove that they're not the restoration of true worship!